September 9, 2022

EPISODE 239: A Multi Millionaire’s Advice for Hitting $1 Million and Becoming a Better Person in the Process – with Guest Casey Graham

You’re in for a very special treat on today’s episode of the Guide Culture podcast. Casey Graham is a lifelong entrepreneur and the co-founder and CEO of Gravy Solutions – the first and only payment recovery solution for subscription-based businesses. He joins Kat and Macy today for an incredibly insightful and inspirational conversation all about hitting your first million in sales and becoming a better person in the process.

Casey shares his wisdom on why the culture of sales matters just as much as selling itself. He also discusses one of the biggest mistakes new entrepreneurs can make, which involves relying too heavily on social media reach and digital ads. Next, he shares the most important thing that entrepreneurs need to focus on – conversations.

In this important conversation, Casey shares his advice for entrepreneurs who want to reach the $1 million mark, and why mentorship, conversations, and talking to the right person at the right time are crucial ingredients in your recipe for success.

This episode is a must-listen for any business owner and entrepreneur, no matter what you’re selling, how long you’ve been in business, and what big goals you might have for yourself.

In this episode, we cover:

  • Why the culture of sales matter just as much as selling
  • Why relying on social media reach and ads when you’re first starting can be a detriment
  • Why one-on-one conversations are so important
  • How staying connected to conversations is the key to avoiding burnout
  • Advice for entrepreneurs who want to reach $1 million
  • The importance of mentorship, conversations, and talking to the right person at the right time
  • What’s the cost of not going all in and trusting the process?
  • Rapidfire round with Casey 

Connect with us: https://www.instagram.com/theguideculture/  

Kat
You are in for a special treat today. We have guest, Casey Graham. He has founded and sold multiple businesses, and has such a great perspective on hitting big business goals, but mainly, he focuses on the kind of person that you become in the process of hitting those goals. He is also author of the no BS, small business book. Enjoy this interview.

Casey
99% of businesses, statistically, never make it to $1 million in sales. All out of the 30 million small businesses in the United States of America. That’s a fact, and so 1%. So you think about that like if you’re the founder of the business, and you’re starting something up, like if you’ve got a 1% chance to make something, if that’s your goal, if you want to get past a million dollars, the chances of you hiring somebody else, it’s not their baby, it’s not their world, it’s not their thing that they’re doing, how are they going to sell it better than the founder, tell that origination story, better than the founder? And then how are you going to keep it going past a million, will determine that you know how to sell it in every environment, every situation, to every objection, and then have the ability. And the other thing that people don’t think about is the moral authority that when you do bring other people in, that it can be done, that when you do get those objections, they can be overcome, that you can say, I did it, let me show you how, there is power in that. And it also builds a sales culture in your organization. And that’s a big thing, where it’s not just like, oh, we have this product and there’s an assumption that it’s just gonna work, or it’s gonna fly off the shelves, or if I just get somebody else in here because I don’t want to think about that, that it’ll just work. I’ve never seen it work. It’s worked maybe in some like one technology startup, that was this perfect app that just took off. But in our everyday businesses, it’s gonna take the founder. I read something about rockets, it was the old school rockets, is that in the first two minutes of launch, they use over 80% of the gas. Just to get something off the ground, that founder energy and that founder cared at birth, this business baby, nobody is going to sound like the founder.

Macy
Gosh, I hear a lot of people looking to quickly hire sales people, sales teams. And it sounds like that’s just like the detriment, honestly, to the whole company, if that’s your first and foremost focus.

Casey
Well, if you’re the founder, and you don’t want to sell, there’s a problem. And so I’m not saying you can’t hire a salesperson. But even if you do hire a salesperson, that it’s not me, and and I’m over the salespeople, I’m shoulder to shoulder and building the culture and the environment of how we do it, because I think the culture of sales matters just as much as what you’re selling.

Kat
Yeah, let’s talk about that.

Casey
Well, you know, it’s like, as the founder, I hope somebody else does it. Well, then you hire salespeople, and they have that same culture, they’re gonna feel like the product needs to be better, if the product was better than I can sell more of this. So there’s always a blame that goes around the hips. If I had this other circumstance, or this other department, if marketing had the leads warmer, if whatever, if all of these things, then I could sell, versus going no, this is guerrilla sells, like we’re finding, we’re going, we’re DMing, we’re meeting with people, we’re doing 100 meetings that aren’t going to work out to know that we’re going to get the five that do. And that type of mentality, that’s the culture that would be set in. And that’s what you want on salesperson number two, or salesperson number three, because it will dilute from the founder. So the culture will not stay the same. And so you’ve got to almost overdo it, so that it comes back to when other people are representing you that they’re going not necessarily at the pace because I think it’s unfair to tell people you should think like an owner. Because they don’t get any upside, unless they’re actually owners. And so how do you get an employee to have this type of work ethic? That’s what’s modeled, and that’s the system they put in place from the beginning.

Macy
So why a million? Because I know in our online space, there’s a lot of like, six figure, like trying to hit that six figure mark or trying to hit the whatever mark. And sometimes I feel like the million dollars feels just so out of reach for people. And what I’m hearing from you is like that’s the minimum before you even think about doing anything else, which I just love that mentality, but talk to the person who’s like, I’m just trying to hit a five figure month, or you know, $5,000 this month.

Casey
First of all, I want to say I don’t care if you’re shooting for a million dollars or not, but the question was to a million, should I be the one that does it? And I believe the answer and it’s not just what I believe, it’s what I’ve seen. And so that’s number one. So number two would be if you’re trying to get the first off the ground five figures, or $1,000 a month, or what my wife does, getting to two grand a month selling her thing that she does, is I think that people try to do mass sales at first too much.

Macy
Oh, tell me more.

Casey
Is that relying on reach from social, or relying on ads, or relying on those things, when you start, I see so many people put so much emphasis on that too early, that they don’t actually go create one sale. Just do one sale, get one customer, and treat that customer like the only customer that you have ever had. And I promise then you go get two customers, and you go three customers, and it’s the do for one what you wish you could do for everyone mentality, of the heart though, getting one person to pay you. You can get 10, but getting from one person to pay to a 1000 is totally different. And so cutting your teeth by that one by one, getting it off the ground. And people want to skip that to grow fast, but you miss the crucial feedback loops that you’re going to get from the masses. And so it’s not even about that I converted them, it’s about the people I didn’t convert It’s all the conversations that felt like a waste of time. And I see people, they get so discouraged by that, instead of seeing it as a discouragement, it’s really just feedback. And so good founders and good entrepreneurs are resilient enough, or good salespeople are resilient enough, to take that as feedback loops. That is judgment.

Kat
Okay, how important, and why do you see cutting teeth conversations as crucial? Like you’re saying one by one, the net, the bad ones are lessons, and they’re failing. It’s almost even more important than the ones that you close? Why? Like, why the one by one conversation?

Casey
Because listening to somebody tell you why they bought and then watching them experience the product or the service, and staying connected to that person is the copy for your website to get to a million. It is the marketing message that you put out, it’s not you being a genius to write to the masses to get everybody to take action. Like you don’t just show up and get that. And what you do, is just we all look at them and they’re crappy, they just they’re blasting social, but they’re never really getting momentum. And they have big followings of likes and comments, but they’re not really selling anything. And so, so many people, they put so much focus on reach, that they forgot that the point of the reach is to convert. And so if you don’t have those early conversations, you will not build the buyer persona of the person that needs to buy the product, and niching it down to these are the type of people that buy this product. Because if I if I asked you, tell me about the type of person that buys your Guide Culture, this or that, you say, oh well, they do this, they do this, well, they don’t do this. Usually they’re this, and usually they’re that. Y’all didn’t get that by just social selling and getting people to come to a landing page and buy from you. You got that from those 100 or 1000, that feedback loops of no, no, the reason they did, and the reason they did, and the reason they did, the reason they did, all of that’s your copy that allows you to scale into the future.

Kat
It’s so important to realize that when you sell to the masses, the masses are just made up of individual humans. And there’s one human on the end of the ad, at the end of the conversation. And it is easy to get sucked in to the mass of everything at the loss of the connection. Like we don’t go to a retreat and know what to say. It’s honestly getting your hands dirty in the conversation, like the most fun of anything.

Casey
And it makes you more human. So when you hear why somebody didn’t buy, and then you have those let downs and conversations, those are the things that you lead with into the future. And so you can quickly then eliminate people that you don’t need to be talking to as well, and especially at scale of what you’re not going to write and what the motivating factors of people that are going to take action are going to take action on. Does that make sense?

Macy
For sure. You know, it’s interesting, it’s what stuck out to me was like copy. And I can’t tell you how many people are like, when the first things they focus on is their website, and they delegate the copy, they hire out someone to to write the blog and to write the sales page. And then they get the photoshoot and they get the branding. And not a single person, not in conversation with a single person, and it feels like work that is below them. It feels like that, like, that’s not what they should be doing, they should be the high level. And that just breaks my heart, and think about people putting so much money, time, and energy, and effort into the one thing that will never get into the hands of people. We talk about, or what we’re going to kind of start talking about, is how someone told Kat that their pastor was saying, like, what if you had the cure for cancer? Like, what would you do? You would do everything you could to get it into the hands of people. And I really believe a lot of people have their version of the cure to cancer. And they’re just like, obsessing over the website for it, instead of like thinking about the person, they’re thinking about their cure, not the person with cancer, you know, and that breaks my heart that they could change people’s lives. And they’re confused about what to focus on. And it’s just so cool to hear someone like you who has been through it, you’ve sold three companies who have built things from the ground up over and over and over, wash and repeat. But you are going to be in conversation with people to the end.

Casey
And even when you say sell a company. So people think, like, we talked about selling your company, which if you’re new to that world, and you’ve never sold a company before, it means somebody acquires and gives you a chunk of change for the thing that you build. But everybody’s like, you sold your company? No, there was a guy or gal, right, that was interested in the company. And I had a one on one conversation. And the number one thing that they’re asking when I’m going to sell the company, tell me about your buyer. Tell me about the marketing mess. Why is this? Tell me about like, what are the motivating factors of these people that are staying and paying because they’re buying. At the end of the day, one human times 1000 customers or 10,000, or whatever it is, it’s one times that, that you started early. And you did it so many times that it’s so natural that then when you’re selling the company, you’re really selling those initial conversations that started to that person. And guess what, you have to sell your company, meaning they don’t just give you the money, right? Millions and millions of dollars are at stake. And so the same conversations that you have early, then you have when it’s big, and it never changes.

Kat
And I would argue that you would have so much heart to sell the company because you know the Emily’s, the Steve’s, the Dan’s who were part of the life change of your business.

Macy
Do you find when you’re in sales conversations, you get more fired up? You like build more belief in yourself and the company?

Casey
Yes, it’s working out. It’s like when did you get fit? Was it Tuesday at noon? When you did that one thing? Like, when did you? When did you lose? Well, no, it’s that discipline, to where then people that go to the gym, you know, like me, and then I’m probably annoying to other people, because I do CrossFit. But it’s because I’ve built that flywheel and that momentum, that then you can’t not do it. And so founders that don’t sell, they miss out on that. And then what they ended up doing is blaming the website company didn’t do it right, or the product is this or that or whatever. But at the end of the day, it’s that founder conversation, that’s the salesperson conversation starting.

Macy
So I feel like there’s a lot of talk about burnout, you know, which is normal and common. But I feel like when we first got started, there’s a whole lot of talk about selling your slate, passive selling, evergreen, you know, all that good stuff. And of course, it sounds really juicy. Sounds exciting. You’re like, Ooh, I’m selling, like, I have $5,000 in my bank account, right? And it’s so easy. We kind of were like, Oh, let’s see if we can do this. And I remember Loi, he was like, don’t you like miss knowing who’s in, don’t you miss, and we’re like, of course, you’re old, you don’t get it. And then we kind of went back the other way like, no, we’re gonna obsess over conversations, in the most fired up conversations. And what’s interesting is like, going back to burnout, people are probably burned out, because they’re not fueled with the people behind it. They’re obsessed over the numbers and the metrics and all that which is super important. But nothing will feel that more than just talking to somebody. And doing really well. And selling your value specifically with control, with ease. That’s what makes you excited.

Casey
I hear that burnout thing sometimes, too. And I think it’s really easy to, you know, replace I’m tired with the social, where I get people to feel sorry for me, it’s to say I’m burnt out. But I think the reality is when you keep staying connected to those conversations, right? You realize that you just lit the fire for the first time in somebody. And your burnout is the last thing you’re thinking about. Because you’re not thinking about yourself, you’re thinking about what they’re gonna get, how their life is going to change, how they’re gonna be cured, how this is going to be cured. And that’s the thing. And so you see people say, I’m burnt out, and really, oftentimes, people that are burnt out means that at the end of the day, oh, and I know there’s seasons of actual burnout, totally. But oftentimes, people use that as an excuse for their laziness. And they go in, like, how many people have you talked to? How many customers have you called who you connected with? And it won’t be very many. And believe me, you do need breaks, you do need to celebrate, you need all this, I get all that. But the reason I say this is because I’ve done that back, I’m just burnout. Like nobody can argue with you. And so people feel sorry for you. I’m so sorry, you know, this kind of stuff.

Macy
And affirm that you are burnt out?

Casey
That’s right, and I’m like, really? Are we really burnt out? Like we’re talking to people about buying something. Like, I mean, come on.

Kat
I can’t encourage someone enough to get people around them who can look at them and love them enough. I remember one time, I don’t remember what I said to you to Macy, but I said something to the effect of like, I just feel like the juice isn’t flowing. She’s like, well, you know, who are you talking to right now. Because conversation fuels content, it fuels the spirit, it ignites. People say I want to serve people, I want to love people. The way to do that is literally to meet them first. You can only do that if you know what they even need. And you can’t do that by creating a marketing plan, that needs to be based on something.

Macy
Yeah, man, that’s so good.

Casey
And when you sit back, oftentimes, I’ve seen too, this is for me personally. So there are times when you get tired of something. You just do it for a long time, and you get tired of it. Is the cure for me, sometimes, too, isn’t necessarily even just selling more to the existing people on this kind of stuff, it’s getting out and having conversations with other people. But the same type of conversations, whether it’s selling, is getting a new mentor, learning a new skill, meeting with new people, getting outside of your thing, and moving in that direction as well. And I think most of the time, lack of action, the longer we lack action, the harder it is to take action, because it feels like it’s just been too long. And so then we use those things of like nobody will buy, it doesn’t work, you know, all this kind of stuff, as blockers. For the reality is that at the end of the day, we’ve just lacked in action for a period of time.

Not being in conversation is the deepest, negative feedback loop to business. That compounding growth, but negative to the extreme.

Macy
I just gotta say, so what we talked about with marketing, if you think about like a farmers market, all it is, is being where people are, and talking to them and seeing what their problem is, and then changing your sign on your farmers market based on what they’ve said, right? And like, honestly, I know, this is so silly, but I met Casey at Starbucks. The amount of times I’m like, I want to go to Starbucks, just to see if Casey is there.Just to see if I can have a conversation with him. I’m serious. Because like, look, we’re gonna do this interview with you, you got to important to our students. And like, we have learned so much from you, just from like walking to Starbucks. I know I’ve read books where people say, hey, go to a breakfast place for 90 days, meet every single person you can and go to another one, go to another one. And like usually, you have no idea what a conversation could lead to. Maybe it’s business, but maybe it’s like a life commission and realize it’s available to them.

Kat
And there’s a life momentum to that, honestly, slap on some chapstick and go compliment the barista. Like to me, that is a conversation that fuels your persona. So it’s like, you know, I’m the kind of person that gets into it.

Casey
Yeah, that’s really good

Macy
In a world where it’s like, I have social anxiety, and so like, I want to avoid every possible interaction. At least that’s the vibe I get from like, Tik Tok is like, I avoid people at all costs. Like be the one who approaches people at all costs.

Kat
Because that feels confident for, not the real conversations, but the ones that might matter more. On the business level, you know, it builds confidence.

Macy
So huge. I want to talk about one more thing. I want to go back to a million dollars. Because you just did a decade of destiny with our Academy members, which was so good.His book is No BS, small business book. It’s a must read. But the whole point is like, hey, what do you actually want. Like, if you want to make $300,000 a year and like go on vacation for six months, live that life fully. But you also said indicative destiny is, hey, don’t underestimate yourself of what’s possible for you. There’s like that tension. And so I just want you to talk about that, about maybe not underestimating yourself. Because you also said that people tend to feel really behind, they feel defeated. So they don’t even think that they can make a million dollars. Like, it’s really not that much. If you break it down, you think about how much you need to sell, yeah, totally possible. So I just want you to talk for the people who do want the million dollars, you know, what would you say to them right now?

Casey
Yeah, I mean, first of all, I think that I listened to Dave Ramsey talks about some stat, I think it’s like 90 something percent of millionaires are self made. So the first thought is that we always think is like, their parents had money, they got into this thing. And so his book about becoming a millionaire, that came out like last year, or whatever, they did the research. And I’ve seen this to be true as well. Like the people I know, they’re millionaires. They all did it themselves. So I think the first thing to realize is that it is absolutely possible for you or anybody to become a millionaire. And so a lot of people don’t believe that. But the second part of that is, am I willing to become the person that it takes to become a millionaire? Meaning, to become a millionaire, you’ve got to be one before you are one. And you’ve got to start with that mentality. And that attitude of knowing the statistics that for most people it takes a decade or more, to become a millionaire. And so then what that does is release people of these unrealistic expectations that I’m going to become a millionaire, because the guy on tik tok said, if I invest in Airbnb business, then I can be a millionaire. And so when you see all that stuff, you don’t discount it, you just know that that guy or gal probably has 15 years of experience that you don’t have. And if you buy their course, you’re probably not going to get it overnight, even what they’re selling. Those two things is I think I can, and then the reality is really hard.

Kat
What do you say the differences between a million in revenue and then a million personally?

Casey
Well, it just depends on the person. I mean, what’s your question? Is it a million? My definition of a millionaire is different than what the Investopedia says, if you have a net worth of over a million, meaning, you know, your house and what your equity in your house is, and then how much you have in the bank. For me, mine was, by the time I’m 30 years old, I’m gonna have $1 million dollars of cash or equivalent, that I could sell as stock or whatever that I could actually use. And so for me, I set that as the example. I mean, as my standard. And so when I started my business at 27, I said, 30. So I said, I’m gonna do it by 30. And it took me till I was 34 to get there. And so I had a financial meeting with my bookkeeper, which, if you’re going to be a millionaire, most people don’t do their own finances. So I very rarely see somebody that does their own even personal finances. So I would meet with her every week, and we had a bar chart every week, and it said $1 million, buy in and buy when, whatever. And then we had this little stalking thing. And so then that informed my business decisions. Do we hire this person or not? Well, if I hire a person for $100,000 a year, what is that? What’s the return gotta be by when to create X revenue, for X profit, to be able to put toward my chunk of change of what a millionaire means for me? So getting clear on your definition is huge. Like, doing a million dollars in business revenue is completely different than owning having a million dollars person.

Macy
And to me, it’s just whatever people want.

Kat
In the vein of our original conversation, which is like, hey, get in the habit, build the muscle to sell and keep that fire lit. Like if you just think about a million in revenue, just start like, hey, you know, that might equate depending on the price of your thing, to a 1000 conversations, 1000 good quality conversations to hit a million dollars in revenue. Of course you’re paying yourself $50,000 or whatever, but maybe not. maybe it’s huge for you. Guide Culture hit a million in like a year and a half through Instagram stories, you know, and a lot of heart.

Macy
And no money being paid to anybody.

Casey
But I think the biggest mindset shift is where I believe it all is. I don’t even think it’s in sales tactics and whatever. I think those are all things to help you get there. It’s literally believing it and then going and having conversations with people that aren’t yet. Meaning my mentors that I had in my life, I have a rotating group of mentors, but I have an advisory board for me, not my business. And on my advisory board, there’s a yes person, a no person, a strategy person, and a current need in my business person. All of them are millionaires. And then once you can meet it, if you want to go and become eight figures, you got to edge up and get around those people. And then what I found, though, is you got to have conversations and be in conversations, where it’s just normal. And if you’re not in those groups of people, it’s very rare that you truly believe, even if people listening, they’ll be like, okay, and then they’ll get excited for a day and then go I can’t do this. But if you’re around millionaires, that that’s normal. And so you want to be around that group. And so upping your group is a big deal.

Macy
I love just the visual of starting with someone that’s just a little bit ahead of you. Like, you don’t have to have an eight figure mentor, and those are through conversations. And that is encouraging to me to think about the steps. I don’t know, I just really liked that visual.

Casey
Yeah, and putting a tenure, I think window on that. And you say 10 years, it doesn’t sound like a lot of time until you think about your age, or 10 years ago, crazy. And where you were 10 years ago to where you are now. And then when you think about that into the future, 10 years you go, it takes the pressure off to say I do have the time. And that actually makes you a better salesperson and allows you to do better, versus feeling under the gun that I’ve got to do this in 90 days, or one year or whatever. And you’re probably not going to get there. And it’s a crash diet that’s going to make you unsuccessful.

Kat
100%.

Macy
Well, the best question someone asked me is, what’s the rush, and just like how you don’t learn the right lessons when you’re in a rush. And when you’re in a rush, you work out of desperation. And people can feel that it’s like blood in the water. People can smell it and try it. And it does not feel good. You don’t want to work with someone who’s desperate. And that has been huge for my brain. Like what is the rush? There literally isn’t one, right? Chill out. Work on yourself. Do quality work.

Kat
So we haven’t gotten here yet. But I keep coming back to you know someone who wants to seven figure their business? In the grand scheme of things, it’s not that much because it looks something like selling one sale a day at $997 for two years. That is it, in revenue, which in two years goes by into seconds, in a sneeze, it’s just one a day, you know, maybe that means five quality conversations or whatever. And what I love about that image is that you can actually focus on one product. In a world that’s saying, hey, product suite.

Macy
Please pop off, because the world tells you to have a product suite.

Kat
Which means have a $97 product, a $497 product, and a $1997 product.

Casey
Yeah, but let me ask you this, the people that are telling you that, how did they get when they started? Did they have that? And the answer is probably no. I am pro mentorship, you know that, and I’m pro listening to people. I’m also very keen on listening to the right people at the right time. And somebody that has been a $10 million business owner for 10 years is very bad for, oftentimes, somebody that wants to get to their first $100,000. They have too much information. They’re too far, they’ve forgotten what it’s like. And so to get to $1 million, in just my personal experience and my mentor spirits, you need one signature offer. I’m not saying you can’t have a chip offer or an upsell or something, but you need one signature offer that you put all of your energy into for a period of time. Like, you know, I think Amazon, like they were just books until like $100 million in revenue.

Macy
Facebook was just college students.

Casey
That’s it, you have to start focusing on the one because if you use momentum, like it’s all of those conversations compound of getting to where you can sell that signature thing better, to more people and it’s easier to once you know how to sell and once you have your conversion vehicle in place to get attention to bring more people into that thing than it is to then build other conversion vehicles because you forget, I had to have all these conversations, all the things we talked about earlier, of why they bought, getting the copyright, motivating factors, and all this kind of stuff. And we think, just slap this out there, set this up there, and most time it just doesn’t work.

Kat
And not only that, but well we hear, what we’ve experienced is that it dilutes your energy.

Casey
So you can do it, there’s just trade offs. So you can have more. But that means you got to hire more people. And you got people focusing on different things to get it done. And early on, that’s oftentimes what will get you stuck. And those expenses won’t create an ROI on investment as it would be if you just focused on one thing.

Macy
And I just go back to like the cure to cancer, like if you had the cure to cancer, you would not be selling a lot of things. That’s one thing that could change someone’s life. Why wouldn’t you obsess over it? And you should have so much belief that you can’t stop thinking about the one thing you know.

Casey
So I will say, one thing also allows you, creativity comes with subtraction or multiplication. So I’m more creative when I go, I’ve only got this one thing. And then there’s actually only 36 ways to be creative. So there’s an actual science to creativity. I don’t have all the 36 that can give you today, because I don’t know what they’re looking at. But I went through the exercises. And some of it is you got this one thing, okay. Now, this is the one thing we’re at 400,000 dollars of revenue, what can we subtract from this thing that can make it be something that the masses would buy? Or that what can we subtract from it? Maybe we’re not doing sales conversation, where we are selling it online. Because we have the copy from all these conversations, whatever. Sometimes it’s addition, right? I’ve got this one thing, what can I add to this one thing that would be maybe access, but you take the one thing, then you add creativity around the one thing that allows you to be able to pivot the product, so you can get more juice out of it. Versus if you have three product you won’t ever focus on because you don’t have the time because your team small.

Macy
It’s like your creativity usually comes when you’re at rest. And when you’re resting, you want one tunnel that your brain goes to, versus five or six.

Casey
Y’all know the reticular activating system? That’s what that is. So I started looking at buying pool companies. So driving here today, and they’re everywhere. And I’m thinking about, I wonder, like my creativity around marketing, why do they have an office building on this expensive thing. And you start all this kind of stuff, it’s like when you buy a red car, all you see is the red cars. So that’s what you want happening in your core signature offer when you see things and don’t give up on it. Because the majority of the people aren’t converting into it. Because the NYCPD people jump I call them rainbow chasers. Sorry, if you’re a rainbow chaser, which is you get to a certain point. And what for me, it’s $500,000, and Rene, my business partner. I feel like we could sell your lipstick, or tables, or these chairs, I could take just about, with Rene, and get just about anything to 500,000. Once he gets there, it gets really, really hard for us. And my natural temptation always is to then go sell another thing, to buy another because I know I can get back. And I can do that. Because my natural skill set allows me to do that. Oftentimes, the reason you can’t edge up is because you’re not willing to pass the test of changing. So what you do is go, this doesn’t work well anymore. So we must do a new thing. And then you’ll get momentum, and then you’ll get there. And then you’ll do this. And then people say I’m a serial entrepreneur, right. And what that means is that it’s almost like a person that’s you see dating relationships, right? Where they get to a certain point, and then they’re out. And then they do it again. And again. And again. And again. That happens with a lot of people in sales and entrepreneurship as well, versus knowing that you’re gonna get to a glass ceiling. And usually it’s people process or technology will be the answer to break through that glass ceiling. But it will have to be a different version of you. You’ve got to burn down your version of yourself. You’ve got to burn down.

Kat
You have to get personal. You have to burn it down, right? I mean it’s not like, I’m stupid, or we’re stupid, it’s like you just have to move past it.

Macy
It’s like the one thing that’s working could be the very thing that’s keeping you from it.

Casey
And you may be the one thing that was working. So if you’re the one, and that’s what will happen is that we’re the one thing that’s working. And then maybe that’s when you bring in somebody else. That is when things do have to change. So I know we’re getting a little bit of theoral, but it’s it’s really important for people that keep jumping back to the rainbow chasers from buying online program to online program. That’s going to be the one that helps them actually gain traction. Like if you bought more than like two or three and you’ve never gotten any traction. You’re the problem. So does that make sense?

People are buying program for strategy. You know, like, not like who they are and not like skill set.

They’re not looking at themselves going, oh, I buy the program, I do the initial thing to get to this point. And then I start blaming the program or blaming that the thing doesn’t work. But the reality is, is that you’re not willing to have the people around you to help you change to the next level.

Macy
Wow. So good. Casey, thank you. You are so smart. And we love having you on the podcast. This is the second one.

Casey
Can we do something not so serious? Can we?

Before we end? I have one more question.

Macy
Serious question or?

Kat
Serious question, then we’ll do rapid fire.

Casey
Ask me anything. I literally have to tell the truth. I mean, this could get fun.

Kat
This is actually kind of serious. And I’m not gonna lie. But between this whole glass ceiling, let’s just call the revenue goal a million and a glass ceiling, say 500. And I the idea that you have one cure, your one solution, your one signature offer that could change lives. Okay, what is the cost of not going in? On believing that you can have enough conversations and have meaningful connection with people to get you to that place. What’s the cost of not trusting that process?

Casey
Mines a weird answer, I think you become jaded. Like, it’s more about, you will, ultimately, over time, I’ve seen this happen with entrepreneurs over seasons, that you literally become jaded about business and people and what you’re doing. And that’s when the burnout comes or the depression, but the personal side of it then comes in. So the cost of you not developing is that you will develop, you’ll just go the opposite way. And then that’s what happens over time. And we all know people get older that don’t get better, is that you at some point, when you stop, you will ultimately become the person that you currently don’t like that’s in your life, whether it’s a victim or a sad person or whatever. No, seriously, they we will become stale over time at that. So the cost isn’t necessarily a revenue thing, it’s a personal development thing. And it’s moving. It’s staying in that growth mindset for the rest of your life. Last thing on this was one of my mentors. His name is Reggie Campbell. And Reggie was on his deathbed, literally deathbed. He died two days after we were meeting with him. And he had his little nose oxygen thing in, he was with his last breath, and he had five rules to die by. And he had them up in his office on a white post it note just like that, and one of them was don’t run out the clock. And I asked him about it. But he’s had that for his whole life. Because he became really rich really early. Cause even people that gain that wealth, run out the clock, that I’m just gonna coast. If you coast, you’re gonna be in trouble. Not necessarily financially. But relationally. But bigger is fulfillment, your soul will wither. And that’s the cause. We think this is about business. It really is that becoming the kind of person that you need to become to get to that thing, requires your soul, and your spirit, and your skill sets, and your self awareness and all of that to change.

Kat
Absolutely agree.

Casey
So let’s let I say, we said this on the first podcast, the thing is that we get into business thinking that we’re going to build a business. But the reality is the business will build you, that’s for sure. And so let that be the case. And give yourself a longer runway and more patience and grace.

Macy
My first button question was going to be you can retire and like do nothing for the rest of your life. Why do you keep going? But you just answered it.

Casey
I did that. They lasted for a few weeks.

Macy
And do you think you wanted that when you sold your company?

Casey
Oh, it came more out of nowhere. It was kind of a situation. It was a unique situation where it happened faster than you thought. And I wasn’t prepared. Because when you sell your company, it’s a life transition. Not a life transaction. You think it’s a transaction, but it’s really a transition. And so my biggest nightmare is having no problems to solve and too much money.

Kat
You said you would have killed to be on a zoom call.

Casey
Oh, I would have. No, seriously, because the prevailing thought when you get that will be, and then I talked to people, and the reason that a lot of millionaires kill themselves is because they feel bad opening up about it because people look at you and go, well, I’d love to trade your problems, give me your million, you know, all this kind of stuff. And so they don’t open up about it. And so then they become stale and, you know, anyway, but having no problems to solve and too much money.

Macy
Being being bored is a scary thing to be having all that whitespace you know what I mean?

Kat
If you want to be the devil do nothing.

Casey
Yeah, and just knowing that like we talked about this from a business perspective, but like doing all this business stuff, and then I’m able to come home, in my failures, even talk to my family dinner about like, things that didn’t work. And I told y’all earlier about when I failed when we were having lunch. My whole family went through that with me, and they were able to see dad fail. So keep going. And my daughter said that she was like that. I’m actually glad you went through that, because it was good to see that not everything you touch turns to gold.

Macy
Yeah. I’m sure they think that too. I’m sure a lot of people think that.

Casey
Yeah, but it’s not true. But we don’t see that right. And so continuing to have those experiences of even the downside of failures. It keeps us alive. It keeps us humble. It does.

Macy
What is like the craziest, oh, gosh, that’s not a good, specific word, like business like experience you’ve had, unexpected.

Casey
When I had somebody trying to murder me in the Philippines when I was trying to save a bookkeeping business. And they come through a window on the 13th floor at five o’clock in the morning, because they thought I was the business owner that was living there. But I was actually staying in the business owners apartment. And it’s five o’clock in the morning. And I hear like, doo doo doo. And I’m literally sitting in my underwear on the bed, because it’s 12 hours and since it’s the day before come home, so I was trying to stay up all night to reverse the schedule. And I hear it and I was like, what is that? Because I’m on the 13th story of a complex. So whatever. So I kind of just, you know, walked in.

Macy
What is that noise that you’re making, is that a gun?

Casey
Well, I didn’t know. So then I was like, that was something. Have y’all ever been scared at your house? And I was like, coming around the corners, you know? And then I was like, okay, I guess nothing. I sit back down on the bed, and doo doo doo doo. And then I saw my window shaking. I opened the curtains, and there’s a person. This is a true story. Hanging off doubled up Walmart green yarn that had climbed from the 13th floor down to the 14th floor, had a knife, was on the windowsill, and was trying to get in the window and was cussing me like a dog trying to get in. I ran down in my underwear. 13 flights of stairs. There’s an armed guard at the bottom. And we go out in the street and we look up in that gas stuck outside the window of the apartment. They call the cops, we go up, the Philippine cops can be like these six shooters from like old school Texas, and they wanted me to go in first. I was like no I’m not going in first. And so we go in, they ended up pulling the guy through and they arrested him and I got my wife on the phone. He screaming at me still and he’s bloody. And I’m like what is happening? And all of a sudden a lady walks in. And she was like, did this so and so come down and all this kind of stuff. And she was surprised to see me because I wasn’t the other guy. I was just staying at another guy’s apartment. She’d been having an affair with the guy underneath her. He was a drunk Australian guy that climbed down and thought I was the guy and was trying to literally kill me. And then I had the police escort me literally to the airport, Manila airport, and I flew home and we saved the business.

Kat
Bookkeeping business.

Casey
That’s a true story.

Macy
That’s a good crazy story right there. What do you got Kat?

Kat
I want to know, what is your favorite thing about having a 15 year old?

Casey
Oh, wow. That’s such a good question. I love that she welI…. I just wanted to thank…I didn’t realize how deep they are.

Macy
15 year olds or the camp?

Casey
15 year old, my daughter. And I didn’t realize how much I wasn’t asking. And I didn’t realize how much they think about like all of it. I mean, from God stuff all the way down to boys stuff and what they see and don’t see online and all of it and realizing like oh wow, I thought I was getting to the end of this journey. And I realized parenting, you know I have four years left, and I’m kind of moving on more of a coach now than in her life as a cop and realizing oh, wow, it’s restarted my relationship. There’s like layers to peel back. And I had to adjust. This is what we’re talking about, cause when I’m with my family, my mom’s still treats me like, I’m five years old, right? Oh, little cakey and wants to like rub up, no seriously, and you get older, you don’t get better and you don’t adjust. And I’m like, oh, wow, I’m still treating my daughter like she’s nine. And so it’s almost like a personal development selfish thing that like now I’ve got to grow. So it’s put me back on my toes again.

Kat
Yeah. So your favorite thing would be that it’s more than you thought. Like she’s deeper.

Casey
Yeah, it’s more challenging. I’m not talking about like, challenging, like, teenage challenging. But like that I have to keep actually thinking this through and making a plan and changing and getting feedback from her. Even like at our at that camp, we decided, like, answer this question from your 15 year old. What is dating? No, like, what’s the definition of dating nowadays?

Macy
I mean, I don’t know. Not nowadays.

Casey
Well, if you ask 100 people, it’s 100 different answers. So like, even have a conversation. It can be Snapchatting. And all this kind of stuff. That’s kind of a too meaningful of an answer.

Kat
But no it matters because it’s a crucial age, and she is gonna be 13 in 10 years, so I need to know what to look out for her.

Macy
Cory, you always have good questions. Your death row meal?

Casey
You ever been to Roosters Incoming? So I go twice a week. And I get 18 medium wings, all flats.

Macy
You don’t know who you’re talking to you right now.

Casey
But I’m flats. So I go all flats, 18medium. I get an extra side of medium rooster sauce. And I get the carrots and celery out early with two blue cheeses. And I get a soda water, no ice, and a Coke Zero with ice. So that’s what I would eat.

Macy
You got any other good ones?

Kat
What you got?

Casey
I thought you’re gonna ask me some hard ones. But this is good.

Kat
Oh, I want to know mountains or beach also?

Casey
Mountains or beach? Mountains

Macy
. Strangest thing your refrigerator?

Casey
Oh, gosh. God, that’s such a good question. I would say probably my son’s, he gets Solo cups, and gets like little creatures and animals and pets from the wild, and will do different experience experiments on them. So he may freeze them. He may put a tarp on them and see if they swim and how wrong they are. But there’s always an experiment in my frigerator at all times,

Macy
What is an accomplishment you are most proud of?

Casey
Being married, because I didn’t think we would stay married after my blow up in 2016 after selling the company and all that kind of stuff. And so like, when you get to the point where you’re like it’s over, not like I’m like frustrated with you, but like I don’t like you. That’s hard to get back. And so that we were able to get into the counseling and get the relationships that we need, and that it can be better after that. So I didn’t know that. But I used to listen to people say like, you can be better, it can always be better. And I was like, well, that’s not right. And then it was, but it took the freaking work and action and conversations to actually do it. But during that time period, if you’d have told me that you’re still married, and you still have the same group of friends and your kids are there and everything’s working five years, six years ago. Wow. I wouldn’t, I would have said you’re crazy.

Wow. Proud of you. One more question, biggest failure?

It was that. When I was empty. I filled it with lots of drinking, partying. I’m having a bunch of money, always entertaining, going like really hard. And I acted like I was 13 years old again. And that was, it seems like, that’s the thing to do, you know, but like, I’m a dad, I’ve got kids and sure all this stuff, but I was an immature asshole. And that’s the bottom line. And so I screwed that season up royally. And that was that was a huge failure for me. A couple others are business failures, where with partners. Like, I’ve screwed that up. Like, if anybody needs counseling on how to have business partners, they can come to me because I’ve screwed that up. And there was one business partner that when I was trying to get out of the business, because it really wasn’t going well. I was super, I was extremely greedy. I was extremely greedy, and I ruined a relationship. And now I still see the guy around town. And there’s nothing, even though I’ve gone back and said, I’m sorry, like, it’s irrepairable. I can’t do anything with that. And it sucks to see people around town as a reminder, when you go to the football game, and you look at them, that you just feel like a failure. And you know it is your fault.

Macy
The business partner, like the relationship part of that, are the failures, not the business itself?

Casey
Yeah. I mean, I’ve had tons of business failures, but that’s the worst. When you know, you could have been better. But you get in the heat of the moment and short term making financial decisions that were high stakes. I was too short sighted. And I’ve killed a couple of relationships being greedy.

Macy
I know you talked about that in the book too. In the very beginning, like apologizing, basically.

Casey
And it doesn’t work. So like it’s only on them if they ever would want to. Yeah, you know, but I can’t do anything. I did it.

Macy
Yeah, man. So good, Casey.

Kat
This so good. What’s your favorite thing you’ve done with money?

Casey
BVI catamarans.

Macy
Oh, yeah, that’s good.

Kat
If you listen to this episode and you think absolutely that is what I want, I want to be able to hit my goals, stay a good person and actually become a greater person than I ever thought I could become in the process. I cannot encourage you enough to apply for the $1 million with one product workshop happening September 20. There is absolutely a way you can actually enjoy your life while hitting big business goals and love the person that you become in the process and be proud of yourself when you look back on it all.

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