Macy
Hey School of Sales fam Macy and Kitty here today talking about discovery calls. The moment that someone raises their hand. Maybe they apply for a call, maybe they book a call, maybe they even just DM you and they’re like, Hey, I would love to talk more with you to see if your product or service would be a good fit for me. There’s nothing better.

Kat
Feels good. It almost feels like in that moment you’ve basically sold them and the reason I say that is because it’s such a win to get someone that interested in to know that they’re gonna sit on a call with you to be sold to.

Macy
Yeah, some people might even call this like a consult call, sales call, discovery call. I know people will say that it needs to be called a sales call, so that people like have proper expectations straight. Discovery call, which is nice, because I like the word discovery because we’re discovering if it could be a good fit. I’m not selling you. I’m here to qualify you. I like the way that feels. Consult call I have a little bit of a hard time with because it feels like I’m gonna get a win, I’m coming to get a win without paying for anything potentially. The world consult is very dangerous. It’s also like advice, which is what we’re talking about today. So I like sales calls. I like discovery calls. I don’t even know what other people say. But whatever the point is, it could just be a DM conversation, where they’re just like, hey, I have few questions.

Kat
The one thing that’s different for what we’ll really be talking about today, but definitely could happen in DM’s, but especially on a zoom call or a phone call, is that there are no breaks. There’s like a pause, but a DM you can totally walk away for days. And on a zoom call, you simply cannot.

Macy
Yeah. I like a call though, personally.

Kat
When you have the skill for it, oh my gosh, it saves you so much time.

Macy
100%. And also, I don’t know if this would encourage somebody, but I 100% get off a sales call. And I’ll go to sleep. And I’ll wake up being like, Man, I wish that I did this differently or like to this day. That’s what follow ups are for right? I went and actually had a meeting with somebody. And I was like, Man, I wish I asked this question. And I just followed up with an email. So even though there are no breaks, and it can feel scary, you will always have a call that in your brain could have gone better. And that is okay, that’s part of it.

Kat
Yes, these will change your life for the better.

Macy
Yeah, if you learn so much in these have skill to do it. Oh my gosh. So because people get so excited about a call or about a meeting about a conversation, it can be very easy to fumble the ball here by over talking, I think this is the biggest problem is especially if you find that your calls are running, in my opinion, over 20 minutes. It really should not be more than that, to be able to see if someone’s a good fit. And then basically tell them why it is a good fit and move them into the next decision. And I think people kind of over talk and fumble in three parts of the call, which is the very beginning, the actual selling of the product, and then the end, like landing the plane and getting them into the next step. I think those three places are where people miss, maybe they do it all three places. Or maybe it’s just one. But we’re gonna kind of break those down and talk about how to tighten it up where it needs to tighten up and what to focus on throughout the call.

Kat
Because what can happen is you can end up on a call that’s an hour long. You can make a simple phone call, they’re interested, and then ends up being 46 minutes. And you don’t even know how that happened. And maybe you wanted it to be that long. There is also a way that you can have a very efficient call in under 30 minutes.

Macy
Oh, for sure. Easy. That is what makes it an efficient call, in my opinion, you know, is by keeping it tight, because it’s not helpful for other people to be on a call for 46 minutes either, right? Just like it’s not helpful for your life. So let’s talk about the beginning. It’s all about the beginning. So I think most people think about me being like, quickly liked and trusted and known. Because in any sales world, you’ll hear, hey, it’s important for people to know and trust you. And your gut instinct when you’re like, okay, if I’m going to be light, I’m going to be known, and I’m going to be trusted people need to know about me. And so there’s just a lot of small talk. Hey, how are you? I’m good. How are you? What do you have going on this weekend? Oh, yeah, me and my wife, we’re gonna go see, you know, top gun. Oh, cool. We’ve been sick in the house. What about you, okay. And it’s like, there’s nothing terrible about it. But it just waters everything else down, in my opinion.

Kat
Oh, well, another one. This kind of just came to me. I wasn’t planning on saying this. But you get on a call as the professional, it’s okay whatever the prospect says, let them be themselves. Job done. Great. Yeah, you just moved, great. That’s their job to tell you all this stuff as the professional coming to the call. Like, your job is them period, it doesn’t matter if you just moved, if you just saw the thing, or if you’ve been sick, it’s all about them. They are the star, the hero, they are on the stage, and you are going to guide them through that. It’s just really important. Because even though you’re a nice person, of course, you’re telling them about your movies probably going to be a good chuckle and a laugh and a vision that you want them to see you as the trusted counselor, not as the friend. And it’s a nuanced and a gray area. Because yes, you want to be friendly. But the best way you can do that is by being interested in them in their life. And asking pointed direct questions about their needs. Knowing what brings you on the call today is a great way to just open up a professional conversation. Because we’re not going to talk about a movie. You know what I’m saying? So it’s not how was your day, it’s hey, what brings you into this call? What what do you need? What are you hoping to get out of this?

Macy
And even if you want a soft place to land first, just a really quick compliment to them would be a great thing to offer. Like, hey, I saw your Instagram, or I scrolled your Instagram, you’ve been posting really consistently over the last six months. That’s just really impressive. You should be proud of that.

Kat
If it’s relevant. So for business coach. Yes. If you’re in nutrition. No.

Macy
So what brought you on this call today?

Kat
Yeah, I’m so excited to talk to you, sounds like you got some good stuff going on. What are you looking for? Just like a little cushion compliment, and then just be direct. Being direct is kind, kind to yourself, and it’s kind of the person who wants to talk about their problem.

Macy
Absolutely.

Kat
Anything else?

Macy
And, you know, you obviously are trying to be liked, known, and trusted. Rest assured that if they are booking a call with you, they know you in some capacity, and they trust you in some capacity already. So there’s not a ton more work that needs to be done with your words, just by the way that you are carrying yourself is the way that you will be liked, known, and trusted.

Kat
Yes, great start. Then the second fumble people make is, oh, so you started your conversation, and now it’s really time to talk about the product, maybe someone has questions, they have concerns. And it’s pointing them in the direction of their needs being fulfilled, their wants being fulfilled by your product. You know, honestly, it’s probably not even how most people think about it. It really becomes, how can I talk about my product? And if that makes it appealing, and desirable for the person listening? .

Macy
I know last time we were on a sales call together, it was a while ago, but there was a little conversation ahead of time, but they actually shared their screen and did kind of like a presentation with their iPad. And it was like, obviously, a presentation she’s done 100 times right. And it was helpful. I didn’t hate it by any means, but it was not personalized. And I noticed that she talked a lot about the whole program from top to bottom. Okay, great information, super helpful. What’s important is, and I bet you listening to this probably feel like you want to tell all about your product as well, because again, people are raising their hand to ask you about your program. One of the best things that you can do is talk about the one part of your product that connects with the one need/want that they have, just one. I know at Guide Culture, there are so many things I can tell you about the program. That it’s eight weeks, there’s coaching, there’s accountability, that you learn a skill, you also learn three other pillars that 75% that makes it. I could go off about the whole thing. But typically, people have a million dollar problem. And that is your goal to find, what do they ultimately want? Not what they need, but what do they ultimately want? And what is the one part of your offer that could fulfill that for them? And can you just talk about that one thing clearly and specifically, and connect it to how they’re going to get what they need?

Kat
That’s really good. So well, what could happen is that the part of your brain that just is the computer, so the newer neocortex part of our brain can just rattle off all the facts. Facts, features, the things like Macy said, and not being restrained by not focusing as much on you, but on your one little detail can do for their bigger desire. So the goal of the beginning of the conversation is honestly to find out what is that desire? What is that need? Where do you want to go, so that when it comes to this middle part, the selling part, you can connect all the stuff? You know, in your head, pick one, just one thing. And tie it to, oh, that desire you want? Yeah, this part will help fulfill that. How does that sound? And then they might say great. And that’s when you know that you can start testing how to land the plane, you can descend from the atmosphere, and see where it goes.

Macy
So let’s give an example. So let’s say I’m talking to someone, I’m going to use Guide Culture School Sales as an example, just because I know it the most. Let’s say someone is telling me that they have not followed through with a commitment with themselves since they started their business. They get all these courses, they know they need sales skills, they know they need it, but they just cannot trust themselves to invest and follow through. The one thing I will probably talk about is that there is a coach that is accountable for you. And there’s a no student left behind policy so that you can feel really good and prove to yourself that you actually can keep promises, and the effects of that promise being kept for yourself, how that will just ripple into everything else you do in the future. Even though there’s literally so much more inside of the program that is the one thing we’re going to talk about and see where they’re at. See if they’re like, oh, man, that makes me feel so much better, or I didn’t even know that was a thing. Oh, that’s so amazing. Or if they’re like, yeah, that’s good to know, but there’s something else. Like great, I’m going to actually push that whole concept to the side and dig a little deeper. To see what what I might have missed. And stay there. And I just like would encourage you to get to the “knows” as quickly as you possibly can. Like, you know, if this person were to say, oh, yeah, that’s helpful, but, it’s like that is a no in my brain, like that wasn’t helpful enough. It’s like, great, let’s get to what actually matters. And I think people, most of the time, they just rip off information without testing the turkey, and seeing where you’re at and knowing where to go down further.

Kat
And testing the turkey means how interested are they? Are they hot to the information? Or is there they’re just frozen, you know, solid? And, where is that? So one of the things I want to tell you to avoid here in this middle section is of course listing off 100 things that they don’t might not care about, as far as your product is concerned, but also the benefits. So the benefits might be real. So let’s just say that you’re in network marketing, and you know that there’s a leader in your company, who started an orphanage, and their husband doesn’t have to do their job they hate anymore. And you also get to volunteer your church, blah, blah, blah, and then you just start listing the benefits. Yeah, not just the things about your programming anymore, but like you can love it because of this. And all of a sudden the person’s like, I literally am overwhelmed. And plus, I don’t want any of that. Or like should I want some of that because that doesn’t sound as fun to me, or what I would rather have is, Disney World payed for in cash, right? Or, you know, be able to, you know, fly private. But before I’m 40. You know, so you just never know where people’s dominant buying motive is, which means the thing that they care about the most in that moment. And that’s why the beginning of the conversation is so important that sets you up to focus on that. The goal of the salesperson is not to guess or assume. It is to get the information, catch it, lean into understanding it, and then directing your product toward that. Specifically, they should have, if you ask the right questions, given you the answers to your own tests. And now if they tell you problems and desires that you cannot fulfill, then they are not a prospect for you. You can say, you know, I’m so sorry, I’m gonna try to find and connect you with someone that you are a good fit for, or whatever the case, I would say, it’s probably not going to happen, just because if they follow you on Instagram, and they’ll probably know, so if you ask questions, get understanding from them, and then match it up with what you do, in the middle part. Oh, my gosh. You don’t have to hit every topic in their life or your company, period.

Macy
Because they’re going to tell you a lot, and you just need to hit on one or two. Take what you need, and leave the rest, and just don’t even go there. I want to kind of transition to this, the people who see this as a consult call, because there’s people who see it as a sales call. And they sell their product only. And they just rip it all the way through all the benefits, all the features, and the other person is like, hey, but did you even hear what I needed? And there’s people who view it as a consult call, where they give advice, and potentially, “prescribe” the solution without selling the solution. So this makes sense, in a way, because you want to like show someone that you know what you’re talking about. And the best way to show them that what you’re talking about is to kind of talk business, you know, talk the same language a little bit, or talk a language that they don’t know, your prospect doesn’t notice that they can see that they’re missing something. But what’s actually happening is they are getting getting what they need without paying you for it. I can give an example. I know that in the life coach world, this is what most life coaches call sales calls, is canceled calls. And I’ve talked to a few life coaches like, how do you like run a consult call, you know, and basically they’re talking about what they need. Hey, you’re having these thought errors making you think something which is making you do something that you don’t ultimately want. So I thought error might be like, it’s normal to celebrate with sweets, it’s normal to have dessert every meal. If you’re trying to lose weight, or something, that’s a thought error, because it’s making you do something that’s getting you a result that you don’t want. And so they’re like, I’m telling them, what’s up? How are we going to change their thoughts and we’re just gonna change the way that they feel, we’re just gonna change their actions. And what is happening, in my opinion, is someone is hearing that and they’re like, oh, I can use that on my own. I can stop thinking that I don’t need sweets anymore. I can change my thoughts just like that, oh, that’s so helpful. They gave me that information, I’m gonna go do it on my own. Because honestly, it does sound really simple. And I’ve been following Life Coach School, the concepts for a long time, and it has always sounded so obvious and so easy. And I’m currently in a certification program, and I’m like, Oh, my gosh, it is so much more difficult. It is so much more depth, and my brain is exploding. And, people are missing it if they’re hearing, hey, all you have to do is change your thoughts, because it’s so much more. And so when you’re in a consult call, and you’re telling people, hey, here’s the solution that you’re gonna have, it’s not making people want it, it’s making them be like, oh, I actually know how to do that already. And same with like, let’s say, you know someone needs to be hydrated, right? You know, you just say you’re a dietitian, and you hear the lack of energy, and maybe, I don’t even know what the symptoms of dehydration would be, but if you’re on a consult call, and you’re like, oh, well, you’re dehydrated. In their head, they might think, oh, I need to drink more water. They need like certain minerals. They need to change the foods they eat. It’s probably so much deeper. But even just saying, hey, you’re probably dehydrated, is not helpful. You would talk, what you would sell, why your program. We’ll give you the energy, we’ll give you the skin, we’ll give you the, you know, the depuffing whatever it is that dehydration can cause will give you but you don’t tell them the answer of their problem.

Kat
And the reason you wouldn’t want to do that, just like what Macy was alluding to, is because they’re not actually going to fix the real problem. Right? When you say something like hydration and they assume oh, I just need to drink a gallon of water. I would just go to Amazon and get one of those big things. Yeah, they don’t realize that they’re actually missing out on the real solution, in which is water actually functioning correctly in their body. Not peeing all day, okay? It’s a whole thing. But you don’t want to leave someone without the real solution, which is you and that’s why they’re paying you for it. So in consult call or whatever, it could turn into an advice call, where, you know, let’s just say Macy comes to discovery call with me and I’m a dietician. And she says, well, I’m really constipated. And I asked about her diet, I asked about what she’s tried, where she ultimately wants to get to, like, well, it sounds like you’re eating too much fiber. And she says, well, what’s fiber? That’s actually a very rare occurrence. It’s you’re not eating enough fiber. And so I could say, you know, 5%, fruits, veggies, oats, whole grains, whatever. Oh, I can do that. Instead, what you want to do is say, hey, this part of the program is going to help you know where to increase your bowel movement situation. And then she may be like oh, cool. Like, now she might have a question. A follow up question about that. Do I get help with that? Can I ask you a question?

Macy
Do I have to turn my life upside down?

Kat
Yeah, any type of question, concern, it’s all great. Yeah, you just want your product to be the answer so that they get the most value for it. Because it is a waste of energy, time and money for them to not get the real result. That’s right, for someone to just go thing they can google search it or on Amazon and figure it out is really a disservice to everybody. That’s why selling and persuading them is the right thing to do.

Macy
Oh my gosh.

Kat
Provided that you can back it up with a quality service and product. Yeah, that helps people, you know, you don’t have to be perfect. And have 100% success rate. It’s just about you with integrity, selling what they really need. Fighting for that.

Macy
Yes. Man, that’s really good. That’s probably gonna be a big takeaway for a lot of people. I think it’s very easy to tell them what they’re prescribing. You know, it’s very easy, especially as a professional.

Kat
Well, I know this because someone in our graduate program academy was saying, like, I feel compelled to just tell them what’s wrong. And all I can think is, well, there’s so much more, there’s so much more than they don’t know. So for them to walk away from you thinking they have it just because you told them one piece of advice, because you were had like obsessive compulsive advice giving disorder, then they’re walking away. So hold yourself, restrain yourself, and speak to the specific value that your program can give them specifically. And then oh, my gosh, you have some happy people. And you actually get to get to the root of whatever their problem is, whether it be their website problem, or their gut problem, whatever it is.

Macy
And especially for the people who have multiple options, like multiple programs, like being able to specifically recommend a program for their one need. I know, I’ve had conversations with people. And they’ll give me like, all the facts about one program and all the facts about the other and then say you can pick and I want them to say, based on what I’m hearing, this is what you are going to want because of this reason. And so this gives you the leverage to be able to do that well.

Kat
Really good. Okay, so the third fumble is really just landing that plane. Okay, so once you feel like you have gotten the information you need, and you’ve given them the information they need to know if it’s good fit for them, then how did you just close it up?

Macy
Well, I also want to point out that the discovery call or conversation is not the sale, it is part of the process of the sale. So when we say landing the plane, I don’t mean close the sale necessarily. I mean, get into a decision in some form or fashion. So, I mean, we talked about this in School of Sales, but if you think about like people are getting on a call, because they’re kind of splitting the line. They’re like, hey, I want it but I’m confused about something, I want it but I think the price is too much, I want it but they’re just like split and so the goal is to get them to the next step. Maybe the next step is saying, hey, this isn’t a good fit, and that’s totally fine. Maybe the next step is speaking with their spouse. Maybe the next step is, hey, sleep on it. And like let’s touch base again tomorrow. I’ll follow up later. I’m not really sure. But the point is, you want to get to a next step in some form or fashion.

Kat
Such a good point. I mean, we as two people have sold millions of dollars, which is unreal. And okay, I think I can confidently say I have never signed up with someone. Definitely not on Zoom. I’ve never like shared screen. Yeah, I’ve never signed up for them. Yeah, they’ve never signed up on the call. No, it’s always like, hey, just signed up. And so you can really be confident to trust people that when you have done your job and they are the right person for your job, then it’s gonna work out. And that’s what follow ups are for. It’s all that great stuff.

Macy
Like your role is to be the guide, not the pusher.

Kat
I’m just saying you don’t have to do that. And if someone’s ever told you, like, will get their card from them?

Macy
Last time I was on a sales call, he was like, here’s the link, put your credit card in. And what’s interesting is I told him that, hey, I really want to talk to the team. And he was kind of handling like an objection when it actually really was part of my buying process. And I wish he just said, great, go and talk to him. Let me know how it went. And I’ll follow up with you tomorrow. And, just be aware that this will make them feel better about their product, their purchase, or their decision. And when they feel good about it, they perform better in the program.

Kat
And you know, I have definitely said this, because it can be true, if someone’s gonna go ask their spouse, another example, then they’re probably just trying to go see you. And honestly, it’s the way you think about this. If that’s true for them, and they don’t want it, then whatever. You can follow up with them. But if they really do need to, then the best thing you can do is give them a compliment. Yeah, ask him some questions like,what does your husband think is most important investment. And then you can try to handle some stuff there with confidence and excitement for them. It’s the way you think about it. Not like this guy, maybe assume some things like, oh, you’re going to ghost me now. When we literally signed up the next day.

Macy
Yeah, 100%. What I wish you did is said, oh awesome, is there anyone specific in your mind onyour team? Oh, gosh, you guys sound like a really close team, tell me about that. I wish he just asked me a few questions. And that’s what I would do if someone is saying, hey, I want to ask my spouse, say amazing, what has your spouse thought about investments in the past? Are they excited about it typically? Or do they question them? Is there anything I can offer or give you or as a resource to help them see the value? Would you like me to get on a call? Hey, when you’re in conversation with him tonight, just send me a DM, I’ll have my messages open. And I’d love to be able to send a voice memo to him if he has a question. Like just literally coming alongside them and helping them over like make a decision. Like I said, either way, that is your job as a salesperson because being in a maybe is exhausting for you. And for them. Because I know you got a list or hopefully you have a leads list. And you want to either be able to check someone off or cross them out. Either one that is the goal.

So how can someone then lane the plan? If it’s not like a definite? And how do you know when you’re at a good end spot? You start ending the conversation and knowing that maybe the next step is either follow up? Probably a follow up regardless?

Yes. So in my opinion, when I’m just replaying some conversations I’ve had if I feel like the value has been built enough, and I’ve handled all the objections that have been shared, I’m ready to test the waters, I’m ready to check the temperature of the turkey and ask for some sort of an opinion. Or, like, an alternate choice of the next step. So I might say something like, hey, in your opinion, if you were to move forward, would you join us for this cohort? Are you thinking about later in time? And just hearing that answer alone tells me so much and hear that answer in tone, in speed of response in excitement, that is all I need to hear to be able to know where the turkey is at. And then also, I will just assume, or sometimes I just tell them for them. Like, hey, it sounds like you just need some time to think about it. I’m so totally with you on that. So take tonight, think about it. And I will follow up with you tomorrow morning. And just like take the reins for a second. Or I will just tell us reassure someone that they absolutely have what it takes. A lot times people just like question themselves, and they need to borrow your belief in them and so I’ll put some belief in them and say hey, I’ll follow up with you tomorrow. Think about it. Those are kind of my go twos. Do you have any other ones?

Kat
No, I mean, that’s perfect because you just want to test where they’re at, and when you know that you have built value enough the right way. You become instinctively to know if their tone is the right response threat feed like you said so it’s great and it’s so exciting. This is why selling is so exciting because this person in the case where all this stuff was done would be freaking excited to change their life and to have a better future because of the thing that you sell. And this can be done in under 30 minutes, no question.

Macy
Another thing really quick about a consult call, I’m just gonna back up. Because that ends up being with the mindset of a consult, it ends up being longer, because people end up telling all their problems, okay? And which is great, you want to hear their problems, but wallowing in the problems and make that last long, it makes them feel sad makes him feel down and no one makes good decisions like that. So we want to hear it and then bring it back up with building value. And honestly, if you’re listening to this, and you’re like, I just need to like practice, then just get his get into as many sales conversations as you possibly can. Go get a job at Costco, and sell some samples of some trail mix, for all I care. But just like talking to as many people as possible about building value around something that’s going to give you confidence and experience. And if you want to save the time, like collapse the time how much time is gonna take you to learn how to do that on your own. Taking something like school of sales where you get the material and the practice all in one is going to do that exact thing.

Kat
Yes. And individualized to your business specifically for eight weeks with a trained master or coach.

Macy
That’ll save you some time and energy real quick.

Kat
Massively. So hope you enjoyed this episode. If you want to know more about discovery calls or have follow up questions, we’re happy to create content about that.

Macy
Yeah, just message us on the DM’s and instagram and we’ll be happy to talk about it.

Kat
See you next week. Bye.