August 16, 2022

EPISODE 235: Your Key to More Leads

How many times have you found yourself obsessing over the number of eyeballs your business is attracting? This is a very common concern amongst business owners, whether they are a coach, nutritionist, or even if they run a brick and mortar.

In today’s episode, Kat is leading an important discussion about why focusing on getting more eyes on your business can actually create more tension for you. Instead, she’s here to help you reframe your approach to getting more leads. From how you can be in control simply by flipping the funnel, to how you can take ownership as a salesperson before any conversation starts, this episode is incredibly important if you want to develop the important skill of sales.

Kat shares her own story of what happened when she finally learned to become a salesperson, along with the biggest thing that is possible for you when you finally become a salesperson. She also discusses the importance of guiding through belief, connection, and showing. This episode is packed with valuable insight so grab a pen and paper as you’ll want to take notes!

In this episode, we cover:

  • Why getting more eyes on your business can create tension
  • How to be in control of who finds you by flipping the funnel
  • Why you can take ownership as a salesperson before the conversation even starts
  • What happened when I finally learned to become a salesperson
  • The biggest thing that happens when you become a salesperson
  • Guiding through belief, connection, and showing
  • Why you can lean into objections when you’re confident and certain

​​Connect with us:  


Kat: If you are in business, whether it is a brick and mortar store, and you sell boutique clothes and cute decor, or you have an online business and your business coach or nutritionist, dietician, doesn’t matter if you’re in business, there is a high chance or guarantee that you have felt this pressure to, and possibly even a temptation to obsess over. How many eyeballs are on your business? And this can come in the form of, you know, how many followers you have? Is your content going viral? Should you run ads? How much money should you put there? The number of people in your market, how many are there. And a lot of times this obsession is really rooted in the way that we can feel about our businesses, which is like, you know, people are looking past me, I feel like people are buying from my quote, competitors, like, as if they don’t even know what I do, like they buy from someone who is not as good as me. And I know that I can help them more, but they’re buying from them instead, why don’t they know what I do. And maybe, even though you do put out consistent great content, for example, people are talking to you about like anything, but anything that you sell, they’re talking about your hair, your earrings, or clothes, whatever. And they’re not talking to you about the thing that you can help them with, which is what you sell. And maybe you have gotten more quote, eyeballs on your business through any of those, you know, tactics we just mentioned, like the virality, content, ads, any of that, but you don’t see it reflected in your sales. Maybe you have gotten some traction and people buying but it’s just not enough.

So you feel this kind of tension. And it’s causing you to be well, if I just had more people, then things would shake out better, which is what we honestly hear in the, you know, in the industry. And it feels like it’s common sense, when I say like that, like, hey, the more people the more eyeballs you have on your business, the more quote maybe leads you have, the more that will shake out, when you prospect them, right, like you’re panning for gold, there’s surely there’s some good people in there, and then you’re gonna have enough sales to count. So if you just focus on the eyeballs, then it will all work out, right. And again, some of those things that they tell us to do at the top is get a lead magnet, right. You’ve maybe heard a lead magnet, maybe it’s like a free ebook, or a video or something, maybe you’re spending money on ads. Maybe he didn’t want to like update your branding, get a photoshoot, whatever it may be. Back in the day, this would be something like a billboard, right? When those weren’t new those were ways to get more eyeballs, and hopefully, enough 1000s of people on the highway would see it that they shook out into enough sales, right? So it feels like common sense. And it’s not that it’s a bad thing. It’s just that that alone is not the answer. And put all your faith into that numbers game could really cause some pain. And here’s what I mean by that. Because, like, let’s just say that you are selling honey at a farmers market. Okay, pretend you are in person selling honey at a table at a farmers market. And that market is pretty good. It has about 500 people that attended. Okay, every Saturday, at your honey table, about 100 people on average walk by, and then 20 People would buy that’s, that’s the numbers game shaking out, right? Those 500 people shake out in the 20 people. If the numbers work out, in theory, in reality, the way they work out in theory, and we know that that’s why it’s called theory because it doesn’t always end that way in reality. So what is kind of the equivalent of getting more eyeballs on your business just like you would at a farmers market? That would cause a little bit of stress, okay? It’s like, hey, maybe you just need to go find a bigger farmers market, traveled to more farmers markets, spend more money, you know, on doing the bigger, better, prettier thing. Now. The reason that this can create some tension is because you still at the end of the day, are waiting for them to come to you. You still don’t have that control

of heard that people really going to buy my honey because in theory being in a bigger market would shake out. In reality, we know that just as not in that way. And a good example of this is being on Instagram. Gosh, I mean, there are I think I mean, I don’t know like billions of people are on Instagram, right? So in theory, that being a market could be Hey, just make an account and the numbers will shake out People will follow you, they will buy from you. And if you’ve been on Instagram for more than a week, you know that that’s just not the case, there’s something there, or something that’s not there, really all the pieces have come together, but they’re not clicking together in a way that the, you know, the large market of Instagram is really shaking out in your favor. The good news is that there actually is a way for people to travel to your farmers market, that they actually go out of their way to come to you. So there actually is a way to be in control of the growth of the people who come to your table, to your Instagram, right? Okay, I know, this is not an Instagram podcast, I just want you to know that this Farmers Market table represents something that almost all of us are dealing with, which could be something like Instagram, or your store or whatever. But let’s just we’re gonna keep going with the Farmers Market table.

You can be in control of who walks up to your table and actually feel really freakin energized and excited about this. So here’s how this looks. So we just kind of when we talked about the farmers market being 500 people goes down to 100 people shakes out into 20 people, that’s really what a funnel is. Okay, so picture a funnel again, a V. Right? And that made people shake out into fewer people. What if the way that you got control had fun? Right, more people in was actually if you flip the funnel? So now I want you to picture more of a triangle and upside down funnel? We flipped the funnel. Hey, can you picture it? What if you actually didn’t wait for people to come to you and scramble around? Where are all the right people? Where’s the most people? Because that makes you feel scattered and stressed and uncertain? What if you flipped your funnel. And you instead took the right actions that make people want to come to your table? Because you actually do take control. When you focus at the top, this flipped top funnel this narrow part, you folks at the top first and then you guide them into where you want them to go? What can actually help them? How do you serve them? So what would it look like to start at the top first? Do you start with just making the sale? Right?

Because that’s what the regular funnel is. It’s the money’s at the bottom. Okay, they make a transaction? No, that’s not that’s not exactly it. Do you start with people just walking up to to you saying okay, I’m ready to buy. Because that’s also what we’re told can happen is that people just like you post and people ask for your link. And that will set you up for so much disappointment. It’s not even funny. So that’s not it either. You actually want to start with the actions it takes to make the sale, you want to start with the actions it takes to make the sale. So here’s what this means. This means that you have some really good news ahead of you, which means that you can take ownership as a sales person before the conversation even starts. See what most people think is okay, well, if I’m gonna be a salesperson, that means I have to message a bunch of people and I have to sort of selling to them. No, what we’re saying here is that when you flip the funnel, and you focus at the tippy top, that narrow little part you actually embody and become the salesperson. Now this is really freeing, and I want to tell you why. Because creating leads, which is what people want it that regular old funnel at the top of the funnel. They’re saying, hey, create more leads. And we’re saying be the person that attracts more leads, like be the guide, guide them into your funnel. Okay? This is how you are going to help people make more like help them make the buying decision, because that’s what the salesperson does is it helps them guide and take action with what you have guide them into taking action, and is the action actually right for them. Now, let’s talk about the word guide for a second.

If you’ve ever been on a tour, then you likely had a guide. A tour guide. I want you to pick one your favorite tour, maybe it was your college tour when you were still in high school and you went on a college tour. Maybe it was Disney World and you went on a tour or your favorite vacation spot right you maybe have went on a tour. Now I want you to think about what was your favorite part of it. Now there’s a chance that could have been the scenery could have been the location you were at. Now what’s cool is that often make or break what makes or break this tour is the guide itself. Now what does as a guide, do what is a good guy, dude, the kind of guy that’s like tells people hey, you have got to go when you go to Savannah, Georgia, you have got to book this, this tour. And if you go this time, Tommy is the one leading the tour. Gerald is the one leading the tour, and you pray and you cross your fingers that you get Gerald because your friends keep telling you about Gerald at the at the tour. Now, what does the guide do? What does a good guide do? Well, first of all, I don’t know if you’ve ever seen one, but they’re typically backwards, like they’re not even facing what you’re facing, they’re looking at you while you’re looking at the scenery, right? So they don’t even need to be looking at it to be talking to you. They’re focused on you. They’re out in front of everybody. They are usually the good ones are entertainment of energy, they are saying things about their area, like they’ve never said it before. It’s like, Oh, there’s the dining hall. This is the best student that dining hall Oh my gosh. And this is the event that they throw every Thursday, or, you know, whatever the case may be, oh, look at the dolphins over there. They jumped at this time every day because they’re meeting I don’t know, right. But they know all this stuff. And they’re entertaining event and they’re energized. And they know, they know that you are like you are the one that they’re serving. They’re not here to talk about their area. They’re here to entertain you so you can enjoy what you’re there to learn about and to see.

Now, the other thing that a good one would do is like they honestly take your questions, they take your curiosities, and they turn them into intriguing stories, right? They make it interesting. Even if it’s just an old house, like they’ll actually tell you the story about it, which makes it memorable. And this is huge. And that’s what helps you remember to tell more people about this tour guide. Okay. Now, if you’ve ever been on a tour, and you have like multiple tours going on, there’s a chance that you’ve seen. Maybe you don’t love your tour group, it’s like it’s going okay, but you look over and you see everyone like laughing at this other group. And you’re like, dang, like, what are they talking about? What are they doing? Typically, that kind of a thing is rooted in the guide, being the person that helps everybody enjoy it, they are the mood meter, they are setting the pace, they are setting the tone. So when we talk about being the salesperson, I want you to think about this tour guide for the rest of your life, like the best tour guide that makes people say, hey, when you go to Savannah, Georgia 10 am, Gerald is there, make sure that you book and cross your fingers and pray that He is the one guiding you because it will be so worth it. Okay, that’s the goal, right? That is how people will travel to your market, they will go out of their way.

Now, let’s talk a little bit more about what this means to be the guide. Remember, we’re selling honey at a farmers market. So it means that you actually position yourself to sell your honey like take the actions it takes to sell your honey, you’re not waiting for people to buy, you’re not just swiping cards, you’re being the salesperson. Because a lot of people what they’ll ask is, hey, what do I need to do? Like what do I do do do do do to get sales? And honest to goodness, like our heart of hearts wants to take you by the shoulders, eyeball to eyeball, be the salesperson and you will end up doing the things that just come naturally to you. Because your heart is the salesperson who wants people to win, who wants to see them served, right and to be better. So all of a sudden the actions that you need to take, they may not even make sense, but they work.

Gosh, I kind of want to tell you a story right now. I’m going to Okay, so when I first I had been in a season where I was doing the things I was reading books, I was on trainings I mean I just wasn’t I was still hitting like the bare minimum in my sales to just squeak by. I was squeaking by for like two years. Okay, but I don’t mean squeaking by like keeping a roof over my head.

I mean, I was squeaking by like to make a couple $100. My husband in my family was so supportive and patient, but it was not cute. It was definitely playing business not doing business. You know what I’m saying? So shortly afterwards, about three or four months after I hadn’t really two and a half, three months after I had learned what it meant to really be a salesperson, this is in 2019 and I did something kind of crazy. I was selling skincare. And I was like you know what if I threw an event at a Mexican restaurant, and I invited people to come and we just like have a good time and we talked about it. It honestly made no sense. I teamed up with some people we spent money that we did not have from any of our businesses, especially mine. And I just remember thinking like, I don’t know why I’m doing this, like A and B do not equal C right now, but I just know that this is the action a guide takes. It is the person who creates the environment who wants to see people have fun and thrive and hopefully, right, take action with this product. Now, it didn’t make sense. But as a salesperson, my thought was, it’s just what I do. If this is just what I’m supposed to do, no one told me to do it. I just felt like, if my heart is the salesperson, I need to create an environment that people want to win and that they want to buy in. And it was honestly different than anything I’ve ever done before. And, gosh, it’s it’s a cool story, because actually, no one did end up buying. No one did buy the skincare at that time, which might sound like a huge loss.

But what ended up happening I had put the event on Eventbrite, one of those Ticketmaster type websites. And a lady came with her friends. And I actually thought she was someone’s mom. But turns out she was at the very top of the company that I was selling for. And she said, You know, I was on Eventbrite. And I noticed that, like, there was this new fun event. And I thought, oh, man, are people finally doing fun stuff again. And in a moment, I was like, Oh, my gosh, this is crazy. So ended up developing a relationship with this lady. And she literally did not know me from Adam or Eve, okay, she just saw me on, not me. She just saw this Mexican restaurant event on the website. She comes, we meet Okay, well, can we connect, and then, about a month or two later, she ended up inviting me to speak at a corporate event on their stage, just about the growth I had experienced just in a couple of months. And this was all because of being the salesperson and yes, sales, like the rest is history sales did come people did see that this was the table they wanted to buy from, I had been selling the same thing for years, okay, years. And it was really this moment of my life that people thought, oh, I actually want to walk up to her. Like she’s saying things in a way that I actually understand. Okay, and this is not special to me, this is actually what happens this is the thing that happens when you embody the salesperson is you do the things that maybe unnaturally would come to you otherwise. The things on your heart that don’t make sense, they actually become the thing that gives you all this leverage to stand out. It’s huge. It’s incredibly huge.

Okay, so that was my story about being the salesperson. And it’s like I said, it’s not unique to me. I’ll tell you another story in a minute. What the biggest thing that I want you to take away from this, and we’re going to dig more into this in a minute. But the biggest thing that happens when you be the salesperson, your goal, your motive your heart of hearts, is that you can get into as many active selling conversations as you can. As many good quality active conversations as you can because this is the key to actually leveraging the knowledge that you gained from people’s conversations. And you can even make content, what you’re going to get to what most people do, okay, when we talked about this regular shape V funnel, what most people do is they say, Okay, well, I need to make sure my branding is right, the label is right that I go to the biggest market ever, and then it will all just shake out. And that is a very, it’s hard to say passive because it’s it is hard work. It is like actively hard work. The reason it’s passive is because you’re waiting for people to react to what you’re doing. And the ends up being about you and your honey and not the people on the other end of it. Are the people at the market actually being connected with what you’re doing. And so what happens when you actually make conversations, your focus is that you get more specific, more strategic, and people will take action.

Again, something else that comes to most people’s mind when they hear this is like well, yes I’m doing all that stuff like the branding and the labels and I’m going to the biggest market, and I’m a nice person. So people will probably naturally want to buy from me some of these smiling would be happy. And you know, I’m nice. And I just want to encourage you towards a more professional view of this. Because I get it like being nice is obviously important in the world. What people really care about when they’re spending their hard earned money is not buying from a nice person and doing you a favor. That’s why people say friends and family buy from you, okay? Because they know that you’re nice, they want to help you. In the real world, being the professional is actually what makes people want to buy from you. And being the salesperson embodying a guide, is actually what makes people who don’t know you want to buy from you. And we’ll get to how that looks in a second.

I want to tell you another story about Melissa. If this is like, gosh, how does this really work? Because what can ha ppen actually, that you, you don’t always have to look for bigger markets, you can actually go to the same Farmers Market week after week, and make some tweaks based on being a salesperson, and have different results than ever before, just like me, I had sold the same thing for years. And I just became a salesperson. And that’s when everything changed. So Melissa experienced the same thing for six and a half years, she was selling the same honey. Okay, metaphorically, or whatever, she was selling honey for six and a half years, the same market. Now, she also learned to become the guide to become the salesperson. And one day after this happened after she became this person, she said that she got a message saying, Hey, I know you don’t know me, but I’ve seen you talk about XYZ, honey. And I think I need some.Can you help me? And in that moment, she realized, oh, my gosh, this is working. It doesn’t matter how big my audience is. What matters is how will I guide people. And how will I explain and represent this product and why it’s good for them? See, this was huge. She was free of the pressure of the eyeballs. She knew that she could convert who she already had. Because ultimately all that sales is is guiding someone into that action into thinking a new way into asking the question, suddenly the message, because she was the tour guide. And she went from being just a tour guide, no one would recommend to the tour guide people are walking up to and they’re booking the 10am in Savannah, Georgia. Do you know what I’m saying? Now, you might be wondering, well, how can I do that? How can you change to guide people from being a just a casual follower into a qualified lead someone who’s legitimately wanting to start sales conversation with you?

Well, there’s three things really quick, I want you to think about, Guiding through belief, guiding through connection, guiding through showing. The first thing about belief is you need to one believe in yourself. Because you can never grow past what you believe about yourself. This is massive. So we’re thinking on not too highly of ourselves. It’s just a you believe that this is possible, you believe it’s possible for you, you believe in your product, you’re not waiting for the perfect label, you know that this product can help people, right? You know that it’s worth getting into the hands of people. Okay, if you know that honey is antibacterial, and that kids can actually have a healthier start to the school year, and that everyone can possibly avoid the first cold because of honey, and they can have a better happier sore, you know, non sore throats or whatever, then you better get your butt to that market and not worry about what the label says because people need you. You can go beat the salesperson, but a boombox on your shoulder and you can rock it. Okay, that’s what I’m saying. And then believe in your value, because like I said, if you know that there’s value in what you do, then it should be so deep that you will go do whatever you will go book the restaurant you will you like I mean, embody what it means to love people and love your product. And that looks a lot like putting the boombox on your shoulder. You are you’re like a next level version of you.

And an example of what this does not look like is someone who let’s just say that someone sells essential oils. And they are talking about it all the time on Instagram. It’s like, Oh, I love oils, oils are great. But you see that same person in person and you’re like, oh, like, do I need some oils? And they say, Oh, I mean, you know if you want. That’s not believing in your value, believing in your value is digging deeper. Why does that person want oils? What do they want to know? What’s the story behind the reason they ask? You can get this and actually leverage it to help more people who want to know about your oils, okay? It’s about digging a little bit deeper and then representing what people want to know which I’ll give another example in a second. I will also want you to think about guiding through connection because connecting with people is the way that this works. There are principles that cross over Instagram, TikTok in person things like a farmers market that make people actually feel connected. It actually kind of goes back to what we just said-are you listening? Are you wanting the story? Are you able to tell the story in a way that people feel like me and like they get me, they really, really do. Because connecting is not something that goes on your to do list that says, hey, connect with five people, you can just, like, message someone out of nowhere and decide that it’s going to be a connection, it really has to be genuine.

And I will tell you a story about one time I was at a hair appointment, it was across town, like an hour and a half. And I’m sitting in the hair chair, and I’ve known my hairdresser for a decade. I asked her about her health. And she said, Well, I’m doing so much better if you need a great Ear, Nose and Throat doctor, let me know because I have someone for you. I was like, Okay, I do not need that person. Why was that so great for you? And she said, Well, you know, I’ve been through a lot and I went to the doctor. And I could tell that he knew exactly what he needed to do. But instead of rushing me through and just giving me the, you know, the prescribed surgery I needed. He listened. He listened to my story, he asked me questions, he wanted to know what I had tried before what I was thinking, and he just let me talk. And then when I was done, he said with certainty that he was gonna be able to help her certainty. He knew exactly how he was going to do it. And the confidence he had was incredible. And what he did not do is say, Hey, look at that plaque on the wall, you are in good hands, look at all these testimonials. You’re in good, good hands. He connected, and he earned trust. And that’s how you actually sell yourself is by not talking about yourself, but by focusing on them. And then guess what she told someone who lived across town about this doctor. And now I’m telling you, the hundreds or 1000s of people who will listen to this podcast. So if you needed an ear, nose and throat doctor in the Atlanta area, I think that that doctor has earned his right to have more leads when you say it’s incredible. And so most people think it does come down to this authority about having like the most plaques and most credentials, and it’s just not, it’s just really, really not what he did was follow the 70/30 rule. I’m going to explain this to you and how this can literally leverage the rest of your content life, all this stuff.

When you follow the 70/30 rule. The person across your honey table talks for 70% and you talk for 30. We should all get tattoos that say 30%? Because that’s the most that we should be talking. And it might be counterintuitive, because you’re like, well, if I’m selling Don’t I need to be talking about my offer. No, you only get 30%. You have 30% to keep people’s attention, keep them curious, build value, info, gather, handle their objections, cast the vision in close, which is all part of the sales process. Now, you might not always need all of those things. What that doctor specifically did was info gather, build value, he possibly handled some objections. And actually, he did cast a vision of how she could be better. And they moved on to the close. And this can happen in 30%. When you know how to have a powerful sales conversation to connect with people. It could be easy if you don’t have the skills to do that to fumble over the 30%. But I just want you to know that it only does take 30% You don’t have to say it all you just have to say the right stuff with confidence and conviction just like that doctor. Now, the cool thing, and let’s put this back in the picture of the honey is that you could okay have a 70/30 conversation where it went so well.

In fact, let’s just say it went like this. You’re standing at your honey table. And people are saying, hey, like have you seen that TikTok. Honey apparently is so toxic for you. It can hurt you. And you’re the salesperson, you’re embodying the salesperson. So you’re like, oh my gosh, can you tell me more about that? And then they say, Well, there’s a there’s a viral TikTok video. That’s saying that honey is like more toxic than ever because of something with the bees. And I’m just now I’m like scared to give it to my family and just won’t do it. So you probably maybe shouldn’t even be selling it. And then because you’re the salesperson you say oh gosh, like can you tell me more about that? Are you trying to live you know, a non toxic life in general or is it just about the honey? And then you find out well, you know, my daughter or she just went through a series of testing and bloodwork and she had some reactions and you know just don’t want to take any risks with her. And now when you’re the salesperson and your in conversation with people, you know that you can empathy, you can seek clarity and understanding. And you have the confidence to do that, to know what people are thinking and feeling and get on their side and get on their team. Without saying, oh, yeah, you’re right, I’ll shut down my table. That’s what some people might do . But you can actually approach the market differently with this information. Because is all that matters is what your market is feeling. It doesn’t matter what you think about your product, it matters what the market is feeling.

And if the market is being educated, like honestly, incorrectly by a viral video, a news segment or TikTok, whatever, you can actually approach the market more specifically and better to help them. You can lean in to hard things, you can lead into the objections, the pushback when you’re confident and certain. And you can put down your sign that says, Oh, help your allergies today. Because apparently, no one cares about that what they care about is, is it safe? So now you can say, hey, this is ultra safe, raw honey, ultra safe. And now people are like, oh, they get me. This actually helped you get more specific. And now you’re better equipped to sell at the market, because you had that great conversation, you’re able to lean in and reframe it to be positive.

Now what you could have happened is you got discouraged, shut down your table, gotten defensive, or just blown it off. The blowing it off and brushing it off, like oh, they just don’t get it. No, that’s what the market is thinking. And you can actually meet people where they are, and change the trajectory of their health in your business, right in this case. So you can actually lean in and not assume and that is how the one conversation helped you get more specific reframe the way they’re thinking about honey, and you put up a new sign that meets them where they are, because you’re the guide. And now that sign helps them be like, oh, man, I want to go to them because they get it when we talk to them about the safe money. And what does that do, then that helps more people know they can come to you. And therefore have, then you’re all of a sudden in contact with more conversations that you can leverage to make more content, more signs, more podcasts.

This is the key, your conversations that you can nail help you do this,. It is not necessarily the next strategy. Because we all know strategies are changing. This is a skill that you can leverage into any strategy, whether it be at a farmers market, on Instagram, wherever you are, you can use this tactic right here. So my challenge to you is to get into conversations not so that you can sell to them. So you can be their guide. So you can help them think get their story, know what they need, know what they want. And then take that information and confidently address it put up a new sign on your Instagram instead of talking about, you know, acne with skincare. Why do you talk about having a hydrated clear skin? Because that’s what more people care about right now in their 30s then then when you were 17 years old, right? Who knows? I’m just saying listen to what people are saying. And then focus on that. But it has to come from you listening to people and navigate in conversation like the best tour guide possible. I hope this encouraged you today. I hope that you try this. Let me know if you do get into more conversations. And if you want to be more confident in your conversations to know that you can answer a DM and send that voice memo and in just get the right information, proclaim and build value for someone and you want individualized coaching around this. This is what you get in School of Sales. This is the way in honestly you could learn sales information all day long. It really works when you put it into practice, you get individualized training and repetition in your skill. So if you are interested in that absolutely reach out to us @theguideculture Instagram and we cannot wait to hear from you. See you at the next episode.





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